Sorry this is so long, if you want you can just read the section that is most interesting then reply based on that. I would prefer you read some of it and reply to that then to not read at all and not post at all. Of course, I want you to read it all eventually. ;)
I made this board almost a year ago to discuss the direction IC will take. A lot has changed since then, and this board is filled with a lot of great ideas. One of the major things that has changed has been my personal time schedule. IC has died and been revived twice since I started attending the University of Arizona last August. The staff has shown to be an incredible group these past months, so I would like to thanks them so much for everything they have been able to accomplish with what little resources they had.
Anyway, as I said, this board was created with the goal of discussing what general directions we should take with the new IC. Yes, there will still be a new IC. Frankly, if there isn't I think IC will eventually die. We need a new IC that is flexible enough to work with my changed schedules due to university but also to attract new members. At the start of this board, the new IC was a blank slate. Well, I've thought I would post here an update of what the new IC is set to be so far. The discussions have been interesting but I have made some decisions concerning the new IC.
[large]CMS[/large]
Last year I got several people excited by saying that I would create a new CMS entirely from scratch for the new IC and provide it for download at the same time. I have now decided against it for several reasons. I've thought about it a lot, so here me out, then let me know what you think of the idea:
One of IC's strengths I think has always been it's relative uniqueness from other sites. The member system, the news, the forums system, all were programmed by me which has allowed for some creative features such as the community shop, linking your account with your topsites account, and (I think the most noticeable one) having forum topics for comments so that you can follow them just like any other forum topic. But this strength has also been a major weakness for IC. As the webmaster and programmer of IC, I have invested time into creating or maintaining basic features instead of working on more complicated features. I've been trying to wear two hats at once, that of the webmaster who is trying to build a strong community and that of the programmer who is trying to create the systems for it to happen. The reason why I have decided against creating my own CMS from scratch is that by using a different system that's already made, tested, and secure, I would be able to focus much more on the management-type decisions that will be (1) revive IceCaves and (2) make it grow larger than it's ever been while at the same time (3) keeping the community small enough that it's still community.
Now, I'm not saying that I regret my decision to build IC from scratch. In fact, I wouldn't be able to confidently switch away from that and use another system without the programming knowledge and experience I gained through the years I've been running IceCaves. Another issue with my old plan to build the new CMS is that I simply don't have the time to start a new large scale project for the site and maintain it during the school year. Plus, I can spend all my time building an awesome CMS for IC and other sites, but it would be worthless if IC is long dead and deserted when I finish it.
If you were excited or open to using the new CMS if it had come out, then I really can't say do anything but apologize for getting your hopes up. If any of you would like to take up this project, I would be glad to help you with what I had already come up with.
So what will the new IC use? Well I decided to use this program called Drupal. I found it to be everything that I had hoped the new CMS to be and more. It's more flexible than WordPress and I think it would be a good starting point to start building the new IC on. I'll begin working on setting it up on a test site during this summer (hopefully by next month) and poking around with Drupal to see exactly what it's capable of, then I'll work towards shaping it for the new IC.
Of course this will mean that some of the features for IC, will have to go, but for the most part, I will try to implement most of the core features of IC into the new system. Give me until August to get that done
[large]Community[/large]
I also have some ideas of how the new IC will differ from the current IC. When organizing the site and building the community I think it would be good to establish some goals or priorities and see if we can come up with creative ways to attain them. Here's what I have so far:
1. a place to learn web design skills that aren't entirely beginner, such as Photoshop Tutorials, HTML5, CSS3, etc.
2. a place to share your websites with the community and get feedback
3. a place to meet web designers/webmasters and their websites
4. a place to help webmasters with some programming
5. a place to help webmasters with hosting / giving out domains (paid for by IC's budget from ads)
6. a place to get resources for web design, such as stock photos, color schemes, photoshop resources
7. a website that acts as a link in a network of websites defined by those in the community
I should add a disclaimer that you should NEVER click on IC's ads with the purpose of increasing its budget. Trust me, we don't need the money. Only click on the ads if you are genuinely interested in the advert. Show some respect for our advertisers.
Also, #7 on the list is taken from the following quote by Isa:
Scrap Topsites, make Affiliates. Have cross-site competitions and the like. Interact with each other, compete with each other, help each other.
Let me know what you think, and any suggestions for improvement you may have.
I am in complete approval of my suggestion being one of the new features of the new IC.
Thomas probably realizes it, but it's a good suggestion because it comes from a member of the Interguild. ;) Jokes aside, I think that it's a shame that you won't be developing the site from scratch any more, but if you feel that it is necessary to move on (and it does seem reasonable), then I suppose we'll just have to see what happens.
[url=http://www.interguild.org][img]http://www.interguild.org/banner2.gif[/im...
I have to say that I am pretty confused on parts of the new IC. For instance what do you mean by "a website that acts as a link in a network of websites defined by those in the community"? I may be misunderstanding, but does that mean IC will be recommending sites or continuing the topsites or what?
I do agree that IC should be more active in participating in sites outside of IC, like making bonds with other sites of similar caliber, perhaps entering competitions? But I don't agree that the topsites should be scrapped. A lot of people, I think, find IC through the topsites because they want to list their site somewhere and see their hits and ranking. I feel like the topsites are a benefit for IC.
Personally, I'm glad you're scrapping the CMS and focusing on making IC better. I never could download Wordpress after several attempts.
I think that IC would benefit from more layout changes, as I think that attracts people and shows that the site is active. I would want to stay longer to see how the new layout affects the navigation and whatnot.
I also think that IC needs to have daily or almost daily updates. If you could set aside five or ten minutes a day or ask a staff member if you're busy to write a quick update, that would help keep the site active.
Additionally, and this is just a thought of mine, I think it would be cool if IceCaves had a mascot or familiar image that could be recognized. I don't know what it could be, but a lot of successful sites have a symbol or an image or a logo that sticks in your brain. Just an idea.
Yay, Anna!
AnnaNeo
I do agree that IC should be more active in participating in sites outside of IC, like making bonds with other sites of similar caliber, perhaps entering competitions? But I don't agree that the topsites should be scrapped. A lot of people, I think, find IC through the topsites because they want to list their site somewhere and see their hits and ranking. I feel like the topsites are a benefit for IC.
[color=green]If people find this page and want to add it just to appear on a list, you're not benefiting, because you will probably have two different target audiences, unless you cut the ties with all Neopets related sites on there (which you should have done long ago). Either way, they won't stay on here - how many new members have been recruited through TopSites? I don't know, but probably not a lot. Correct me if I am wrong.[/color]
I think that IC would benefit from more layout changes, as I think that attracts people and shows that the site is active. I would want to stay longer to see how the new layout affects the navigation and whatnot.
[color=green]Nobody becomes an active member on a site because they change their layout ever now and then.[/color]
I also think that IC needs to have daily or almost daily updates. If you could set aside five or ten minutes a day or ask a staff member if you're busy to write a quick update, that would help keep the site active.
[color=green]While daily updates seem like overkill, I agree in concept. At The Interguild, before us Staff Members became way too lazy, we had Weekly Updates that were helpful for old members returning back, but also for members who had just been inactive for the past few days.[/color]
Comments in green.
[url=http://www.interguild.org][img]http://www.interguild.org/banner2.gif[/im...
I agree. You're right. However, I do think the topsites should be kept as a tool. Perhaps only members should be able to join?
Right again, this wouldn't generate active members, but the changes would be a reminder to current members and maybe keep them active for longer.
Yes, daily is almost too much. :P But if we start out with so many updates, it will hopefully set a standard, and IC will in general will seem more active.
Yay, Anna!
AnnaNeo
Perhaps only members should be able to join?
This wasn't required?
Also, the new layout must acknowledge that IC is a small community, which it doesn't right now. For example, I'd like to get an easy oversight of how many members there are on here, but instead of being able to list all the users, I'm advised to search for them. This works in a bigger community where you may not know everyone and listing everyone would be a hassle, but this community is small enough for it to work. It doesn't have to be pretty, just simple and functional.
It also doesn't make sense that the "Community Stats" page doesn't even list how many registered members you have, however, it does say that 55% of the ones who have registered are female...
When remaking this, Haily, please try to fit everything into the same category if possible. Right now, the topbar has IC Home, Community, and Forums. To me, a lot of the things found in IC Home could very easily be found under Community or Forums. I understand that you may not want to hear this and that I may be very biased, but I think you should look at the Interguild's structure. There's not a single doubt where I can find what I'm looking for (for example, if I want to list all the members, it's under Forums & Community, marked with a number of the total amount of registered members right now). The main page doesn't even have its own link in the topbar, and there's no need for it there either - the top image links you there instead, just as it does here.
Try going with the "less is more"-approach. Cut down on things. Everything feels really cramped as of now - do you need the 5 latest news on the front page, an image, and the whole first paragraph? Do you need to have these news just a few millimetres away from each other? I think that these give the viewer an overwhelming impression - there's too much to handle, with flashy images all trying to draw your attention. Go for a more simple look, because while twisty, twirly things are cool, they overload your frontpage. Cut The Crap.
/random rant
[url=http://www.interguild.org][img]http://www.interguild.org/banner2.gif[/im...
Edit: I posted this without reading Isa's post above. /Edit
I realize #7 is a bit vague but I already have some ideas as to how to work towards attaining it. Perhaps something like a weekly update or something, but I think it would be a good idea to have a post that recommends an article or blog from one of our affiliate sites. That said, the distinction between affiliates and members should be blurred much more. If you're an active member and you have a site, it should automatically be in our affiliates list. If you are in the affiliates list, but have never joined IC or have a post count of, say, 5, then I don't think you should be in th affiliates list. I think one of IC's flaws before is that it tried to be a community for a group of websites but also tried too much to be like those websites (given its roots, it's not surprising that it was still similar). Instead, I think IC should be more radical in the way it organizes itself so that everything is in perspective of the 7 outlined goals I wrote in the first post.
By removing the distinction between affiliates and sites that make up the community, we can do so much more as a community. We can share blog posts, articles, and resources that are worth to share through the IC homepage. We can hold cross-site competitions or events. We can also direct our visitors to other sites whenever our own content is lacking (such as our photoshop gradients) and other sites can do the same for us.
As for the Topsites:
With the plan I laid in the first post of the topic and with the ideas I posted above, the Topsites isn't necessary at all. But at the same time, I realize that the Topsites is a powerful marketing tool for IC in that we have already established a network of websites linking and essentially advertising IC through the Topsites buttons, like Anna said.
So I took a quick look a at the Topsites, searching through the sites by category. (You can do the same at http://topsites.icecaves.net ) The "Fan Site" category was where I threw in all the neopets sites back when I first created categories back when who knows when. It seems that Neopets sites occupy the vast majority of "Fan Site", "Gaming", and "Graphics" categories and still hold some influence over the other categories. Among the sites that are non-neopets and don't have near-zero average daily visits, there's only about a dozen of websites. Of the top 10 sites, the only site that is non-neopets is in Spanish. Of the first page, which is sites with an average of 50 daily unique visits or higher, there are only 3 non-neopets sites (not counting IC and the Interguild).
At first it looks like dropping the Topsites would damage IC's popularity. It will, but how valuable is the popularity that IC gets from the Topsites? If it were possible to calculate IC's daily visit count of non-neopets visitors and compare that to number of visitors that IC's hits will drop to if we drop the topsites (if there is a drop int he first place), then I'm pretty certain that the two would be relatively close to each other. I say drop the Topsites. We are distracting ourselves from our central goals as a community by seeking short-term gain through the Topsites.
That said, I really like some of the ideas of within the Topsites that we might be able to use in the new IC. Ideas such as site reviews, analytics, and possibly ranking. We should keep these on the drawing board for now.
@Isa, I completely agree with you on the unnecessary clutter IC has. I'll keep that in mind when I think about designing the new IC. And when I do, I'll be sure to post screenshots, mock-ups, and such in this board. It's probably true that the current layout and past (even more cluttered) layouts have scared or confused people away from IC. We need a design that builds around what IC has to offer without (1) giving it to you all at once and (2) without getting between you and the content by making it look more flashy. I'm hoping that once we have a better abstract idea of what IC as a community will focus on, we can start focusing on what the site's design will focus on as well (should be the same things).
As for the navigation organization, I feel like "IC Home" and "Community" could very well be merged. That said, I would also like to point out that I doubt that I will be splitting the site into different subdomains/departments like it is now. The new IC should be much more cohesive and smooth when navigating throughout the site. We should also have a page or two that attempts to showcase the community instead of the community stats page. It could be some type of merge between the community stats page and the IC staff pages. It would show the members/affiliates (I wonder if they would be called affiliates.)
Looking at the homepage right now, I think that Isa is right about not showing little blurbs of the seven most recent updates. Maybe you could have one big blurb, maybe trailing off after the first 50 words or so, that does that rotate thing. Let me try to explain this better. On a lot of websites, they have an image that has something important on it, and then after maybe five or so seconds it fades into a new image. Like on http://www.newyorker.com/ where they have little scrolling blurbs, which end up taking up less space. I think, if you presented the recent updates in this way, that you could convey all the news you want while not taking up too much space.
Yay, Anna!
AnnaNeo
We could use what Anna suggested perhaps to show the newest graphics, stock photos, and scripts on IceCaves. Interguild has that and they call it featured content. http://interguild.org/ This could replace the "Newest Graphics & Design Resources", "Newest Stock Photos", and "Newest Scripts".
As for displaying news updates Jenny posted this in the staff forum over 2 months ago:
[img]http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx9/thinkjenny/icslider.jpg[/img]
It would be similar to the featured news except it wouldn't automatically slide so you can read the information from the post.
I remember last year in the staff forum some staff talked about doing weekly/bi-monthly/monthly updates on IC. I think we should have a monthly update which could be posted on the first Saturday/Sunday of each month. It can include announcements from twitter which were not posted on IceCaves (eg: http://twitter.com/#!/IceCaves/status/55017399396728832), top commenter winners, total number of stock photos, graphics, scripts added in the month, and basically just information for people who don't come on IC much to stay updated with the site.
@Haily if somebody loads a topsites page does that count on the site visits? Topsites pages don't show up on the weeks most visited pages but I don't know if it still counts in the total visits.
I think the topsites should stay but you should program a new one yourself and remove the old one. The new topsites could be more integrated with the new IC. From the account settings page you could add your site(s), etc.
Dammit. I have exams, and you post an interesting topic like this? NOT COOL.
my temporary anger aside...
A lot of what you guys have said above makes sense :) I'll try comment on as much of it as I can
Haily - As much as I was looking forward to your new CMS (for my own personal goals and dreams off course), I, like most other members, would much rather prefer that you help revive IC instead of working on the CMS - you never know, maybe in a year or two when you have more time (i know, extremely unlikely), you'll be able to start work on a newer and better version of the CMS
I like the list of goals and objectives that you produced above. might I suggest that we have a lot of emphasis on tutorials for graphics/resources, and not just provide them? that would be an extension to point 6.
And as for point 5 - i think this is a wonderful idea! we could perhaps revive our monthly contests (I was going to comment on our contest board after my exams for a new contest we could start) - or maybe even find other reasons to give out domains. We could, though I personally don't like it, have a post count system, where if you post a certain number of times, you can get a domain.. granted, this could merge well into the IC shop - one of the (really really really) big ticket items we could have on there are domains. I, and I'm sure Thomas as well, are more than happy to offer hosting if we decide to go down that road :)
The topsites... I'm stuck on what to do here. I agree with Isi that most members who join the topsites today aren't joining IC as well. However, I am one of the few people who did - I saw Icecaves on a lot of my affies sites (back in my neopets days), and thought I would join - one of the best decisions I've ever made. I really like the topsites as it lets me keep track of my page views etc. I have heard a few people comment that it's not 100% accurate, as it doesn't count every single hit that a site may get, so perhaps we could scrap the current topsites network available, thus severing ties with neopets, and rebuild a new affiliate/topsite option where you apply to be an affiliate, and if you'd like to, you have access to some of the stats that topsites had to offer
I like Isi's cross-site competitions. One of the contests I was planning on doing in a few weeks on enchantmenot.info was to tell participants to come to IceCaves, find a stock photo that they like (either from the whole site, or from a specific category) and make a banner/layout.. that way IC would get more visitors, and hopefully some people would stick around.
I think if we can find more sites like IceCaves (maybe not exactly the same, but a community that they're trying to develop?) or other places holding contests,. it would be a lot of fun, and we'd meet new people :) we could potentially arrange to have a web development cross team contests, where a site, IceCaves, is a team, and competes against other sites/teams... that could be fun
While I don't know if people wait around to see how the navigation will be affected (:P to Anna) I think we need to have a layout change. and possibly return the skinning option, so that visitors can choose different skins if they so wish. I love the compactness of IC, I think it makes it look "professional" or "organized" but the font is too small.. the colors are kinda bleek, and these are things that many other people have commented on before.
As for Daily Updates - way too much Daily. The staff had tried to work on a system where we would release a new article on Fridays, and have sitely updates (e.g. new stock photos, or a sudden influx of color schemes) on monday/tuesdays.. but because of the contest, we didn't have as many updates as usual... then I've been busy with Exams, Jenny the same i think, and Thomas has been trying to add new articles, but fell ill or was too busy. I think if we try to fully implement this Monday/Tuesday and Friday updates system, the way we had it before.. it would be active enough
I just read your comment on having posts/articles that recommend posts/articles form other sites - I really like this idea :) Though I think we had discussed this at one point, and had suggested having "Guest Posters" who could earn extra icepoints, or something of the like, as well as advertising their site on their posts... (Or maybe I'm just going crazy...)
I finished reading your second long post - i still go with what i'd said earlier about the topsites/affiliates.
However, with the site reviews etc. I know a few of us have talked about this in detail - one of the new features we could have in teh shop is a good and strong site review, which would then be open as a forum so others can add their input.. maybe a few staff members would be given this as a responsibility to write the review, afterwhich the review would be a forum topic.. the site's owner gets feedback and can ask questions while other members can make their comments about a site
I'm not gonna comment on the space stuff for now - we all know we need more space and bigger fonts etc. and I'll let you guys discuss it (as I need to go and pretend to study) but I like Anna's suggestion for the scrolling thing... if i remember semi-correctly, the interguild has something like it?
Yes, I haven't been posting.. but I do try and check up on the site everyday, so i will keep reading this everyday until my exams ;)
My Sites: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
Thomas posted while I typed.. typical :P hehe
Yes, Jenny made that - I don't remember if I commented on it.. I like the general idea, but I think we'd need to redesign portions of it.. like the size of the number.. i also prefer knowing what i'm clickin on, so don't really like that it is numbers... but i'm not sure if it's possible to put the article's title on it...
as for the biweekly thing.. i think that was more us sending out email newsletter type things of all the latest updates on IceCaves. I think either bi-weekly or monthly would be fine for this...
My Sites: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
@Haily if somebody loads a topsites page does that count on the site visits? Topsites pages don't show up on the weeks most visited pages but I don't know if it still counts in the total visits.
yes, it does count it. what happens is that the script that adds the weeks most visited pages, excludes the topsites from it. I wanted it to show IC's most visited pages instead of the topsites.
I think the topsites should stay but you should program a new one yourself and remove the old one. The new topsites could be more integrated with the new IC. From the account settings page you could add your site(s), etc.
I don't think I would keep the topsites but I might re-implement some of its concepts in the new IC, but I'd rather not have a section of the site called "topsites."
As for the design, I like the idea of the rotating updates. Also remember that for the new IC, think of it as starting from scratch, not just modifying the current IC. The news banners could be different dimensions to match with the rest of the site, considering we decide to have banners at all. I really like the Interguild's set up of featured content. I'm thinking this would be better to have because it allows us to showcase different things specifically and directly like a forum discussion or site review (I would like to have a site review section).
As for a periodic update, I'm thinking it's a good possibility of things we should have so that people are able to keep up-to-date with what happens in the community.
I can't read everything, although I could very easily convince myself it'd be beneficial to my exams.
I agree with Haily's choice of Drupal. It's a very good CMS and I like that it is easier to manipulate and more flexible than others. :)
Oh...Topsites. It's nice having Isa's opinion on the Topsites since I'm quite emotionally attached to it, like Aashni probably is as well, so therefore won't want to do away with it. I agree a good majority of the sites on their aren't worth listing anymore and we should probably calculate how many visits the websites on the Topsites bring in all together. And then decide..
On the design of IceCaves, I will say this again although I sound like a broken record: we need lighter colours. I won't deny IC is cluttered and full-on but it's all augmented by the darker colours. Plus it's not very welcoming. I don't agree with skinning the site; I find that tacky and frankly, useless. It doesn't solve anything but use the same ethos that IC already kind of follows: more is more. If Haily/anyone else designs a perfect theme for IC, there isn't any need to skin it.
Fatter sidebar.
I wouldn't take the mock-up of the scrolling news updates thing too seriously. It was a quick-fix situation for this layout of IC, rather than a perfect situation for any upcoming layouts. I was just suggesting the idea and showing how much clutter it could clear up, especially on the homepage.
The blog isn't doing very well...just putting that one out there. Every Friday was a bit idealistic. And I'm still not sure I understand the concept of the blog in the first place (don't bother explaining it to me, I've had it explained to me many a time).
A lot of the content needs to be gotten rid of. You know what I mean.. But even in sections of content that I'm pretty sure we're keeping, stock photos for example, a lot needs to be sorted out. It's hard on a website that isn't strictly yours because of the amount of content from other people but a lot needs to be cleaned out. There are some absolutely gorgeous photos on IC and then there are some which leave a lot to be desired. It isn't very helpful having that range in quality because the tag system isn't all that efficient in finding the photograph you really want. And now, I feel like a complete bitch but believe me I am just as much part of the problem.
I want to see IC providing more realistically for web-designers. And that means WordPress, CMS, etc. rather than wallpapers, avatars, whatnot.
And lastly, I'd like to nominate Yogi to be IC's new mascot.
Thank you. :clap:
Jenny-Jen-Jen :D
Bloggity: www.windymill.net
Web-Design Portfolio: www.jenny-aster.net
I want to see IC providing more realistically for web-designers. And that means WordPress, CMS, etc. rather than wallpapers, avatars, whatnot.
Exactly, exactly, exactly. The type of content IC should provide should be resources and tutorials. Color schemes, tutorials, and stock photos do this the best, but avatars, wallpapers, and forum sets don't at all.
Just like the site design, I feel like IC should start from scratch and get back to the basics and stay simple.
I agree that wallpapers and avatars are not the most useful content IC wants to offer, but isn't IC also a site for webdesigners?
Yay, Anna!
AnnaNeo
I'm just going to post here to keep this topic on the recent forum topics list after Rachel (AcrossTheSkies) submitted her colour schemes so we don't all forget about it.
It is, but just keeping a gallery of them isn't very useful. Perhaps hold design contests to design avatars, wallpapers etc. to upkeep the web-design end of things but not submit them onto IC? Plus there's a lot more to web-design than just avatars, that's more general digital design rather than web-design.
Jenny-Jen-Jen :D
Bloggity: www.windymill.net
Web-Design Portfolio: www.jenny-aster.net
Ok, so the last few days I've been poking around drupal on my private development server and I really like how flexible it is. I'll keep poking around and trying to set things up to how I would for IC if I were to build IC on it. The server that IC is on isn't optimized for running Drupal, but I think I can get that sorted out.
Something I've been wondering is, should IC stay open while the new IC is developed? Should IC just close everything for a few weeks while the new IC is developed (the staff or anyone interested would help in developing it, of course). The benefit is that it would give people and visitors a period of time to let go of the old IC and accept the new one. It would also give us time to break our neopets ties from the Topsites and our affiliates. The disadvantage is that we would lose traffic and popularity in the short term. I don't think that would be much of a problem in the long-term considering the new IC is done right. I personally would prefer closing it down (except the profitable wheel of monotony page of course) and just postpone any new content/competitions for the new IC. Let me know what you think.
Also if we do decide to close the site temporarily, it won't happen until probably two weeks from now or later. I'll be gone starting this friday until the rest of May on account of family vacation.
I dont think we should have the avatars etc. up there as a "Resource" however tutorials etc. on them is a good idea.
And about closing the site - NO!!! Don't do it! I think the start of sumer is a good time to keep it open, as a lot of people are now free and have time to get online. If you post an update on the site saying "The New IceCaves is coming soon...." And give as many (as few I should say...) details about it, then visitors will get excited for it, and know that the site isn't dead... but that it's still around. That way current members can keep interacting the way we like interacting, and we can try hype up new members about the new upcoming site.
If I read through that, half of it wont make sense.. but my brain is too fried to even bother rereading it. Basically, I don't think we should close while you make the new IC, coz we can hype it up etc.
My Sites: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
I agree with Aashni. Plus I can totally imagine you closing the site for say, two weeks, and then that two weeks dragging on, becoming three, etc. Not trying to say that you'll not work hard or anything, but that kind of thing can happen to everyone and anyone. And personally, I like talking to people here. We can all do a great job of hyping the new IC. We're great at that. :3
Oh look, some blatant advertising. I should stop this. But you know you want to click this. You do. If you're denying it then you're lying to yourself.
NOOOOO!!! Don't close! I'll be sad. Also, the start of the summer isn't a good time to shut down because I know there'll be new members as more people will have the time to go online. I would say that once you've finished the new IC, then you can try to get the hype and think about the transition. Perhaps show small previews like Aashni said and every once and a while post updates about your progress that will excite the members. I think that shutting down wouldn't really help the transition, and, sort of like you said, people would lose interest during the downtime.
Yay, Anna!
AnnaNeo
All valid points, especially Rachel's point that the closing period might drag on if something happens and things don't go according to plan. The reason why I thought of closing the site was because I've been conflicted been updating the current site and working on the new one. I think it would be a good idea to have the staff continue updating the site like it has been, and every once in a while, I'll post an update on either this board or in the homepage news (when the site is almost done) about progress on the new IC. How about that?
That sounds good. That way you can focus on working on the new IC. :)
Yay, Anna!
AnnaNeo
I'm on my phone so apologies if this comes out stunted.
Being the easily conflicted and undecisive person that I am, I obviously much like the sound of the compromise. I'm not really sure how long Haily's 'couple weeks' are so that seems like a black hole waiting to happen. I don't really have any further points to add to take note of. I'm sure we can get up a semi-if-not-demi regular updates during Haily's absence. And I'll back more on the 28th of June fully expecting to see the new IC. ;)
Jenny-Jen-Jen :D
Bloggity: www.windymill.net
Web-Design Portfolio: www.jenny-aster.net
It is, but just keeping a gallery of them isn't very useful. Perhaps hold design contests to design avatars, wallpapers etc. to upkeep the web-design end of things but not submit them onto IC? Plus there's a lot more to web-design than just avatars, that's more general digital design rather than web-design.
Why is that not useful? We have the space, right? So maybe you don't make it a big gets it's own navigation on the site, but you could still have a portfolio like thing. I personally like browsing through graphics, but then if that's not the type of site you're going for, I suppose I could understand getting rid of it. I guess I just don't see the need of getting rid of it.
Eight Is Even | The Design | xoxo, Jayy
There just isn't a practical use for them. It's a gallery of design-work rather than a useful resource that IC wants to provide for web-designers. Some of the graphics are a bit outdated and they don't represent a very modern (not the word I'm looking for but it will suffice) IceCaves.
Jenny-Jen-Jen :D
Bloggity: www.windymill.net
Web-Design Portfolio: www.jenny-aster.net
I could see getting rid of REALLY old ones... but I upload some every once in a while, as such I will be uploading quite a few at the end of the school year.
Graphic Designer
Firstly, I'd like to apologize for being ridiculously inactive. That needed saying. I seem to have been getting a lot of schoolwork plus acquired some semblance of a social life (don't look so shocked!). That, and I've been spending time on other web design websites and such.
From those, I want to suggest some things for the new IC. These are my opinions in a rather illogical, sprawling fashion. It will probably make no sense.
1. Things like avatars, signatures, userbars etc. on the site, while some are quite cool and good quality, and it will probably upset some people to remove them, I think should go. They aren't necessarily the most professional of content, and really vast librarys of design that varies from brilliant to very average, and I think the focus of the new IC should be more on providing content to help web designers and developers make cool designs etc (i.e. textures and brushes for photoshop, tutorials, code samples for tricky or cool effects) rather than a gallery of created design.
2. I've been spending a lot of time on sites such as Dribbble.com and Forrst.com recently, and if you haven't heard of them I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you go and check them out. Basically, the idea on Dribbble is that designers working on a project can upload a cropped preview of a portion of their designs (a set image size), that they can upload to show off something pretty, to show off what they're working on, or to request critiques. The site is very minimalistic, basically allowing the uploading of designs, favouriting of designs, and commenting on them, and it's a fantastic resource for both finding inspiration and getting an opinion on something you're designing. Forrst is similar, but caters to designers and developers, and has more of an emphasis of posting only things that help the community or require critique - so less cropped shots, etc. Without ripping off the ideas of either of these sites, I think similar features could really be beneficial in the new IC. We cater to both designers and developers, and if you take a look at how these two sites function, I think it could be really useful to have a way to upload things for critique and advice or to show off to other designers and developers for their opinions without having the pressure of having to release a finished product.
3. Another site I've visited a lot recently is the fantastic PixelsDaily.com by Liam McCabe (designers, I'd recommend checking this site out). PD is a site with daily updates that are basically either a super quick five step tutorial on an effect that can be achieved within a design, or a downloadable, organized PSD of an effect someone made in Photoshop. There are some very valuable resources there, and you can learn a lot simply by downloading a PSD and checking out how a brilliant effect was created. I bring this up because of the mention of 'daily updates' at IC - whether daily is feasible for us hobbyist developers/designers, who knows, but certainly we could augment the larger, more intense articles with frequent posts of a 5 minute, simple tutorial on a quickie (but awesome) effect, or a downloadable PSD of something cool that someone created. On PD, anyone can contribute, but the site is moderated by the staff, so the same thing implemented here could probably help with getting more weekly posts, as we'll probably eventually acquire some visitors not interested in the responsibilities of being a staff member, but talented enough to create some content for the blog.
I think what I've said so far covers the following points of Haily's post:
1. a place to learn web design skills that aren't entirely beginner, such as Photoshop Tutorials, HTML5, CSS3, etc.
2. a place to share your websites with the community and get feedback
3. a place to meet web designers/webmasters and their websites
4. a place to help webmasters with some programming
6. a place to get resources for web design, such as stock photos, color schemes, photoshop resources
As far as his suggestion about networking with other websites in the community, I think maybe having a monthly post of a top five sites in a certain category (brilliant coding/design, unique use of something, etc.) could be a way to keep it in the theme of good design and development and still network with other sites.
Okay, now I'm going to ramble about things I think should be done in the new IC. Read at your own peril! Again, I apologize for the superlong, disorganized post.
1. I think the new layout needs to be a bit more minimalistic. Minimalism, especially in light colours, draws the attention to the content of the site. Also, IC needs more whitespace. We cram far too much into the space we have, which is a bit of a deterrent to a first-time visitor coming to have a browse. We need to keep it more minimal, and let snippets of really worthwhile content do the talking. I'm very much against the idea of skinning it, as well as the idea of changing the layout constantly. A website gains its identity through a recognizable layout, and having an effective, minimal layout that can be subtly tweaked and improved constantly is a better choice than investing hours of time constantly creating new layouts. Also, while I'm fairly amateur, if help is wanted in designing of layouts/typography/anything design related to the site, I'd love to help. 'Cause that's the kind of stuff that gets me excited. Also, I like minimalism.
2. Secondly, I think IC needs to be branded a little better in the sense of perhaps having a logo or icon that is cool and recognisable. It doesn't have to be over the top. I personally think dribbble.com's logo is nice - simple and effective without being overbearing or too complicated.
3. These are the sections that I personally would divide the new IC up into. By no means am I necessarily right - these are just ideas.
Main blog section (homepage) / Place where designs and code can be uploaded for critique, where questions can be asked, etc / place to download resources and find tutorials (e.g. organized PSDs, patterns, scripts etc. / Forums. I probably left something out there, but you get the gist.
4. I think we need to reorganize our forum system a little. I think we should basically have a design forum, a development forum, and a social forum as the three main categories, and try not to come up with too many subcategories, rather, fill these with topics etc.
5. This is a point that hasn't really been addressed and (I feel) is quite important, so if you were just skimming read this please! So we want to keep the new IC alive, yes? As in recruit new members and keep the community active. I think there are two main things that will contribute to this: keeping the level of contribution available as we already do, but also, working on some kind of 'achievement' scheme. Be patient with me while I try to elaborate. You see, people tend to subconsciously need some kind of motivation of tangible success or progress or contribution to keep them motivated. It's the video game theory - that 'leveling up' appeals to people as it's a constant goal to work towards and a visual representation of a success. Some people on IC really work towards being top commenter, and many are fuelled by the motivation of trophies on their profiles. I think it would be good to have some more ways included in which people can 'level up', so to speak, on IC, because it gives them a motivation to stay involved. So there's already karma and top commenting and such, but we have things on our profiles such as hours online and post count that are really rather arbitrary stats. I think we need to make these things more meaningful by giving some achievements for certain things. I hate to bring up Neopets, but they've got the right idea with the shields on profiles that indicate how old an account is - the shields get nicer the older your account gets, and on that site it's prestigious to have an old account. Old accounts on Neopets also gradually earn more posting privileges etc. These are some things we could do to appeal to this achievement oriented part of peoples minds:
- Have different ranks of account, achievable by having a certain number of posts (and by this, I'm talking more along the lines of posts on the blog, posting resources or tutorials, or design/code for critique rather than forums, which should be more fun-based and left out of the serious system, perhaps)
- Have unlockable achievements to get to these ranks, like a certain amount of online time coupled with a certain number of posts will achieve level 2, which then gives you the option to do something else (kind of like how the points shop works now, I guess).
- have, underneath the trophies and such on people's profiles, a feed of the content they've submitted to the site, minus posts in the social part of the forums. All the helpful development and design related stuff they submit should show up on their profile with a post count.
- This might be getting too indepth, but perhaps a way to 'follow' people's feeds of stuff, like on twitter and dribbble. On dribbble you can follow someone to see all of the designs they upload, and that's the kind of thing I'm suggesting about here. This means that people can perhaps have a page when logged in that is a feed of the content submitted by people most interesting to them - developers can follow developers, designers focus on designers, etc.
- when someone rates your submission (i.e. stock photo), this is added to a total number of likes you've accumulated on your page, or something.
I'm sure there's more I had to say, but I think that's enough for now.
Basically, I'm quite excited about this, and if help is needed in design-related aspects, I'm there :P
Want to read the extraordinarily riveting and epic tales of a compulsive hyperbole artist with an embarassing life? Of course you do. Click it.
Just want to add something to Sam's above idea of "levelling up" (which is brilliant might I add). Perhaps add on each user's profiles their top-rated work (which includes anything left on IC if/when we get rid of something the other content). Puts more of a design touch to the user profiles; rather than just being a community, a community of designers. And I like the idea of a simple feed of submitted content, that's good.
Jenny-Jen-Jen :D
Bloggity: www.windymill.net
Web-Design Portfolio: www.jenny-aster.net
HELLO :)
Sam, thanks for the LOOOOONG reply :)
I am totally for your 2nd point - I think that would be a great idea to try and implement - where we can give feedback to developpers or get feedback on projects that we're working on. That's one of the things I'd really like, I work on layouts etc. but I'm never sure if they're 100% or work on other peoples browsers properly... so this would be a great thing to do :)
I agree with your third point, about trying to get more updates etc. it might be hard to implement for the simple reason that we, as a collective, are probably not enough people to have daily updates... but I think if we work it out well, we can try and get every two or three days to have some sort of update...
I really like your final point(s) about the levels thing. One reason I got mega active was to try get onto each of the categories on the Community Status page (most online etc.)
I think, considering the different skills etc. we are trying to grow, we can try and have different ways to show this off. For example, if you're a designer, the more things you submit to the site, the higher your "designer" ranking climbs (this way, submitting graphics counts similarly to posting in teh topics)... While at the same time if you're a developper you get counted differently... but these all show up on your profile..
So, for example, it would look something like this (i'm using Jenny cos she posted right above and I can see her icon etc.)
[icon picture here]
Site: windymill.net
Karma: +67
Rank: Staff
Designer: ##
Developper: ##
-contact-
Taking out the age and gender... we don't really need those in my opinion...
My Sites: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
@Aashni No problem :) I had geography homework to avoid. Ahh, my fingers are so cold I can't type. It's FREEZING in my room.
I think having the rank thing next to the posts is a cool idea, although I'd argue that age and gender, or at least gender, are kind of important. Sometimes usernames don't always give away gender, and if I don't know the user I hate having to click to their profile to see it. Maybe it could be made more subtle, though, perhaps just the gender symbol in red/blue... that would be enough to get the point across.
@Jenny I like the idea of having their best rated work on their profiles. That way you can take a look at a user's profile and have an idea of their level of ability, and also gives users something to work towards, a kind of portfolio of their best work, almost.
Want to read the extraordinarily riveting and epic tales of a compulsive hyperbole artist with an embarassing life? Of course you do. Click it.
Pages